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tv   Full Measure With Sharyl Attkisson  CBS  September 18, 2016 11:30pm-12:00am CDT

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stage and the moment. the clinton campaign has said over and over and over again, look, 100 peoples state bank will watch this. this is a moment to get very basic facts and very basic ads about donald trump's history, my own credibility out there. and i think to some degree they see it as kind of almost a writ large diversion of their convention condensed into a couple hours. >> dickerson: we'll have the leave it there. it's a little more than a week we thank you all for being here. we'll be right back in a moment. >> two candidates, one goal, your vote. the first president, debate, a cbs news prime time special live september 26th. announcer: you taught him how to hit a baseball. how to hit a receiver. the strike zone.
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>> dickerson: saturday marks smithsonian museum of african american history and culture. we visited the museum with a man who spent 15 years working on its establishment, georgia congressman john lewis. congressman, we're sitting here at a lunch counter. what does that mean to you? >> sitting here, i tell you, means everything to me. my first non-violent protest was in 1960 in downtown nashville
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on a stool in the local woolworth's store. this all takes me back. i grew up sitting down. i wouldn't be the person that i am today if it hadn't been for taking a seat. >> dickerson: what does it mean to be here inside this building? >> it just means everything. to walk in here, to see this magnificent museum, it's going to continue to take me back, just walking through here, i could almost cry. i don't want you to make me cry. >> dickerson: you also spoke at the other end of this mall on the march on washington. would you ever have imagined that there would be this kind of a monument? >> i never thought, i never dreamed that one day there would
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museum telling the story and the history of african americans for the days of slavery. >> dickerson: what is that story you want people to understand when they come here? >> this story is an american story. it tells of our history, our having the ls, desegregation, racial discrimination, but much earlier, the whole system of slavery, the denial of basic constitutional right, the right to vote, the right to get an education, that people suffered, they struggled, people were beaten and arrested and jailed, people died, but they never give up. they never gave in. they never became bitter or hostile. they kept the faith. and they kent dreaming. >> dickerson: when you spoke
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america. we cannot stop, and we will not and cannot be patient." a real sense of urgency. where are things now in terms of urgency in the fight for social justice? >> well, we've come a distance. we've made a lot of progress. when people tell me nothing has changed, i feel like saying, walk in my shoes. ly show you change. we're one people. and we were involved in the '60s. white people and black people suffered together. they died together to bring about change, to bring down those signs, white men, white women, colored men, colored women. the only places we will see those signs today will be in a book or in a museum like this one. >> dickerson: speaking of
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edmund pettis bridge. what was happening in that picture. >> well, in 1965, a group of us, about 600 of us, wanted to walk from selma, alabama, to montgomery to dramatize to the nation and to the world that people of color wanted to register to vote. we were walking in an orderly, peaceful, non-violent fashion. we came to the highest point on the bridge crossing the alabama river. down below we alabama state troopers. and a man spoke up and said, "this is an unlawful march. you will not be allowed to continue." a young man from dr. king's organization said, "major, give us a moment to kneel and pray." and the major said, "troopers, advance." i said, "major, may i have a word?" he said, "there will be no words."
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night stick. i was hit in the head by a state trooper from a night stick. i had a concussion at the bridge. i thought i was going to die. weeks later we walked from selma to montgomery, and president johnson made one of the most moving speeches in the modern times on the whole question of voting rights and civil rights. at the end of that speech he >> dickerson: you recently wrote a piece in the huffington post about that march from selma to montgomery. you said there's a way to talk about where we are today. tell me a little bit about that. >> dickerson: the march was 50 years ago. it changed america forever. there were hundreds and thousands of people coming from all across america, priests,
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white, all coming together. it was like a holy walk. and there's still a need for people to protest. we should never ever give up on the right to protest what is right. >> dickerson: you mentioned non-violence. martin luther king and the montgomery story, that comic book that inspired you when you were growing up. in that comic book it about loving thy neighbor, a strong part of the non-violent message, that even when people are hitting you and beating you deserve your love. where is that message now? >> the message is still embedded in many of us. i think we have to teach all of our children, and those of us not so young, that the way of love is a better way. just respect the dignity and the worth of every human being. we need to continue to get it out there.
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right in america, maybe it can serve as a model for the rest of the world? >> dickerson: is that message of loving thy neighbor being lost a little bit? >> i think there are are some forces in america trying the take us back to another period. we must not let that happen. >> christa: do you see that in the presidential campaign this year? >> i see it very much. so there are forces that want to divide us, and we must not be divided. we've come so far. working and building together. too many of my friends, too many of my colleagues, young people that i knew, '6 and '64, white and african american, died together. we must not let their deaths be in vain. >> dickerson: thank you, sir. >> thank you, sir. >> dickerson: and we'll be right back. engineers can spot
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>> dickerson: there will be more of our conversation with john lewis on our web site, face the nation.com. that's it for this week. for captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh
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don't like you use about you are angry, hateful, racist. >> oh, i'm racist? if i have something to say, i say it right out. sharyl: embattled and outspoken, maine's governor paul lepage has largely sworn off the media. but he spoke with us about his future and his aggressive attempts to reform a welfare state. joce: this hacker helped shut down one of the most successful propaganda tools for isis, but four questions keep him from being hired by the fbi. >> i can't imagine one person i know who would have the skill that would meet all those criteria. sharyl: congressman jason chaffetz heads the house oversight committee and he isn't finished with the hillary clinton email trail. rep. chaffetz: it's one of the biggest security breaches in the history of the united states state department. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ?
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sharyl: welcome to "full measure." i'm sharyl attkisson. there's only one governor we know of in the whole u.s. who's sworn off talking to the press. and we have an interview with him today. the governor is republican paul lepage of maine and he's been embroiled in controversies stemming from his dislike of the press and his unorthodox ways, which some find offensive or worse. his supporters think he's a political target, in part, because of his aggressive push to reform the welfare state. today, we explore his effort to get mainers off the dole and whether it's a model for the rest of the nation. maine is known for scenic water views, an abundance of lobster, and its reputation as a welfare state. but last month, governor paul lepage's effort to reform that reputation was threatened by an expletive-filled voicemail he left a critic over whether his
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gov. lepage: i want you to prove that i'm a racist. i've spent my life helping black people and you little son of a -- socialist --. sharyl: that drew national attention and calls for him to resign. rachel maddow: this is by no means an exhaustive catalog of governor paul lepage, his controversies and his fights and even his public smearing. -- swearing. that would take way too long. sharyl: but lepage insists he's not going anywhere and will continue pushing aggressive welfare reforms, which helpe him get elected in 2010. that year, a full 36% of maine's budget was spent on welfare like food stamps and cash assistance. >> we'll either call you back today or tomorrow. gov. lepage: i am the example, the poster child for the american dream, and you don't do it by taking. you do it by giving and earning what you have. sharyl: lepage has launched a crackdown on fraud after
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nobody else had unearthed -- millions of dollars in food stamps intended for needy maine residents were being spent in far-flung locations like hawaii, puerto rico, and the virgin islands. what does that tell you? gov. lepage: it tells me that it doesn't work. that's what it tells me. it tells me that there's nobody looking after the chicken coop. sharyl: tom roth leads the effort to catch welfare cheats. tom: we've got one large case that should be going for indictment soon that's about a quarter of a million dollars in case to date. sharyl: lepage has also pushed through a series of major welfare reforms. maine was one of the few states with no restrictions on how long people could get cash assistance. now there's a five-year limit. those convicted of drug crimes can be booted off welfare if they flunk a drug test. and then there are big changes to the food stamp program. gov. lepage: food stamps is a copout. i'd rather teach them how to earn money so they can buy their own food. sharyl: under revisions made in
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age 50 with no dependents can only get food stamps if they enroll in vocational education, volunteer an hour a day, or work 20 hours a week, if they're mentally and physically able. after one year, the results were remarkable. the food stamp caseload of childless adults dropped more than 80% from above 13,000 to under 2600. gov. lepage: i've met some people that in 2010 hated me. hated me. i was, when i was campaigning about reforming welfare, and i would just get these letters occasionally saying, ?you were absolutely right. now i'm not on benefits. i am self-reliant for myself. we're productive." sharyl: but the governor's brand of tough love has plenty of skeptics. chantal brouillard is a restaurant manager in castine, maine. chantal: we can't have a state
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think that he is potentially going to take away benefits for families and community members that really, really needed. sharyl: state senator nate libby, a democrat, accuses the governor of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. cutting funds for critical programs increasing childhood hunger. state sen. libby: i think the governor has created this sense in the state of maine that all welfare is bad, and that, you know, people should be cut off of the public assistance rolls at any cost, without sort of looking at the corollary effects of that. sharyl: lepage's reforms and his running commentary on the causes of maine's social ills have set off critics. earlier this year, he said most maine's heroin problems are coming from black, out-of-state drug dealers. gov. lepage: guys that are named "d-money," "smoothy," "shifty," these type of guys that come from connecticut and new york, they come up here. they sell their heroin. then they go back home. incidentally, half the time, they impregnate a young white
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sharyl: confronted by what he viewed as a hostile media and accusations he's racist, lepage lashed out and said he wished it were the 1880's so he could duel one of his critics. and he stood by his earlier criticism. governor lepage: we have a lot of people from connecticut, new york, the bronx, they come up to maine with heroin. they're killing our people. and yes, they move into -- they find a woman to move in with. and since we're 99% white, it's a white woman. sorry, but it's a fact. sharyl: the words people use about you that you don't like are often "angry," "racist." gov. lepage: oh, i'm racist? sharyl: hateful. gov. lepage: if i have something to say, i say it right out. and do i say things that are not politically correct? yes. will i continue? yes. do i get attention? yes. all of the above. and i think you people worry too much about pc, being politically correct, instead of the heart of the person. sharyl: lepage insists his heart
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philosophies deeply rooted in personal experience. his grandparents came to maine from canada to work in the textile mills. he grew up in an abusive home, speaking only french. he's the eldest of 18 children, most he never knew because he ran away at age 11. it was a tough upbringing? gov. lepage: a major tough upbringing. major. and to the point where i just couldn't take it and i left. sharyl: what happened? gov. lepage: it was a beating. a vicious beating. and i left home. sharyl: he lived on the streets and took him in. some would say, being someone who grew up in poverty, abused as a child, homeless for a time, that you should have the most kind of sympathy for people? gov. lepage: i do. sharyl: going through that. gov. lepage: i am the most compassionate person for poverty that exist in the state of maine and the united states of america. you try growing up, can't speak english, on the streets of maine. i'm gonna tell you, you go to school with a hole in your shoe,
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to keep it from freezing, and the fact that you're living on the streets, you don't have a shower every day, and you tell me we don't get discriminated against. sharyl: he became a successful businessman and father of five, including a young man he calls his adopted son, devon, who is black. lepage says his street experience taught him what helps and what doesn't. gov. lepage: july of 1964, we had a war on poverty and we've thrown money at it and then we turn around and walk away. but i roll up my sleeves and work with people and teach them how to get out of poverty. sharyl: on our visit, the governor took us to capitol clubhouse, a program that trains the mentally ill so they can earn their own paychecks. >> thank you for visiting our clubhouse. sharyl: 30 years ago, lepage was the first businessman in the state to hire so-called transitional employees from a clubhouse project. drowned out by the noise over the governor's controversies are
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what do you think of governor lepage? >> i love him. sharyl: why? >> why? because he's not a politician. one of the things i agree with is the idea that everybody should be pulling their own weight. >> his concerns about the state are spot on in regards to the things that need to change in the state of maine. his approach is questionable. we all know that. sharyl: while more people have been getting on food stamps nationally, it's the opposite in maine. under lepage, the state's food stamp enrollment has dropped 23%. cash assistance cases are down 62%. and the amount of food stamp money spent outside of maine has been cut almost in half. eric brakey is a republican state senator. state sen. brakey: welfare reform has been a very popular message here in maine. now, maybe in some corners of, you know, "the people's republic of portland," maybe it's not always as popular there. but state-wide, we see that
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sharyl: so popular, there's a brand new law barring people from spending cash benefits on alcohol, tobacco, guns, and tattoos. and it was sponsored by a democrat, senator libby. state sen. libby: a lot of mainers are really surprised to learn that you can use state public assistance to buy cigarettes and alcohol. and i don't think there's anybody who thinks that's a expenditure that helps pull somebody out of poverty. sharyl: as the sun sets on the lepage administration -- he's out in two years under term limits -- he plans to stay the course. it remains to be seen whether maine's reforms will lead to more poverty, as some critics fear. for now, the state's call centers sound a little less like a welfare state. >> this is definitely a temporary assistance. it's not something that's permanent. sharyl: and lepage says he's out to reduce dependency, not make friends. gov. lepage: i don't care. i wasn't here to be liked. this is my story about being liked. when i want to be liked, i go
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it's unconditional love and i have three now. i might have to have a fourth one before i'm done. [laughter] sharyl: in a new poll released this week by "the boston globe" and colby college, 64% say that the level of civility in politics has gotten worse or much worse during lepage's term. 54% say they have no confidence in lepage's ability to govern. still ahead on "full measure" -- hillary clinton's emails face a hill. we talk with the republican in charge and ask why. >> this information is so classified and so sensitive that if the adversary saw it, people
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sharyl: this week, at a congressional hearing, the public got its first look at three computer technicians who helped set up hillary clinton's three private e-mail servers and in some cases allegedly deleted subpoenaed. two of them took the fifth and another was a no-show. we spoke with jason chaffetz, head of the republican-led house oversight committee about why he's pursuing the email trail. rep. chaffetz: it's one of the biggest security breaches in the history of the united states state department. so, we gotta make sure that we understand how it happened, try to put that genie back in the bottle. but it's just a major security breach that has untold implications for a long time to come. sharyl: once i sorted through the fbi summary, it was pretty
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saw key hillary clinton emails. some of what they found was the clintons' apple personal server she used for work mail couldn't be found, an apple mac book laptop and thumb drive that once had her email archives were lost. thirteen of clinton's mobile devices were lost, discarded, or destroyed. after she was notified her records would be sought by the benghazi committee, copies of her email on the laptops of her attorneys were permanently wiped with bleachbit. after her emails were subpoenaed, her email archive was perman bleachbit from the server she was using at the time. and after the subpoena, backups of that server were manually deleted. rep. chaffetz: it really is unbelievable. if you put this in a movie, nobody would believe it. but remember, this information is so classified and so sensitive that if the adversary saw it, people are going to get killed. and it was done so sloppily. i mean, it's just cavalier attitude, that she was above the law. sharyl: today, we saw publicly,
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who took part in the bleachbitting, the permanent deletion of some of these emails after subpoena. they took the fifth. >> i respectfully decline to answer and assert my constitutional privilege. sharyl: in its partial review, the fbi found over 2,000 emails currently classified as confidential or secret, 193 emails that were classified at the time they were sent. most remain classified today. eight were top secret, 37 were secret, and so on. and 12 of the sensitive email chains were not provided by hillary's attorneys. the fbi found them in other ways. mrs. clinton: i did not email any classified material to anyone on my email. there is no classified material. rep. chaffetz: well, and we still have literally tens of thousands of emails that they haven't finished going through. they have 14,900 of them that the state department is reviewing, but we heard testimony last week that there's an additional universe of tens of thousands that they haven't gone through. and a lot of this stuff was
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sharyl: what's so bad about the idea of some of those emails being obtained by our enemies? has anything happened because of it? our world hasn't exactly fallen in. rep. chaffetz: you have everything from satellite imagery to drone strikes to covert operators. you know, a lot of this will be untold -- behind the scenes. but what if you were putting your life on the line? what if it was your son or daughter who was out there serving this country in maybe a clandestine way and then you had this cavalier person in hillary clinton just not secure the da it puts people at jeopardy, at risk, and there's untold consequences to that. like i've said many times before, she was not the secretary of fish and wildlife. she's the secretary of state. and if you could know in advance where she was going, what she was saying, what her advisors were telling her, it gives you an advantage that isn't going to necessarily show up on the front page of the "new york times." but it gives you that much more of an advantage. if you were playing cards with somebody and you could see those

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